The US electoral system is broken and has always been broken. Republicans have spent the past 2 decades gerrymandering and introducing as much legislation as possible to manipulate the outcome of elections in as many districts as possible. They’ve introduced legislation: to prevent people with debt from voting, to prevent people with criminal records from voting, to prevent people who cannot physically make it to polling stations from voting. The Republicans and the ruling class own all the largest media organizations in the United States, and they have weaponized social media and traditional media to indoctrinate and manipulate as many people as possible.
Trump won this election with fewer votes than he lost in 2020. He won mostly because Republicans and Democrats are material allies in neoliberal and imperialist endeavors. Democrats refused to campaign on progressive politics, instead choosing to run on a more conservative campaign than they ever have before.
The working class is not responsible for their own manipulation at the hands of the ruling class. It is not their fault that the system is broken. It is not the fault of American families who literally can not afford to resist, as without the income from their jobs, they will lose their homes and be unable to feed themselves and their children.
Capitalism is the problem. Conservatism, and by extension neoliberalism and fascism, is the problem. Donald Trump is an accelerationist fascist. He will not wait and seeks to plunge the nation headlong into fascism as soon as possible. But do not mistake that as being in opposition to the social and political system of America. Donald Trump is entirely a representative of the failure of American democracy, not a representative of the American people. He manipulated people into voting for him, as evidenced by widespread outrage at his actions even among those who ostensibly voted for him.
Not to mention that the this “English is now the official language” decree is, I think, a way to set the foundation for a way to exclude even more people from voting. I predict they’ll come out with some kind of English proficiency test to be allowed to vote.
The only thing I can assume that is referencing is when felons can’t vote in some states unless their court obligations are done. Some states passed laws where you can’t have your voting rights reinstated unless that court debt is paid off. That includes payment. Some people did their time but haven’t paid off their court fines.
Which is why it’s considered a flawed democracy, which I stated.
Republicans have spent the past 2 decades gerrymandering
Except Trump actually won the popular vote this time. Making this argument void regarding the presidential election 2024.
Republicans and Democrats are material allies
That far I agree, they have arranged it so they share power, except this time, Republicans may choose not to share it anymore.
The working class is not responsible for their own manipulation at the hands of the ruling class. It is not their fault that the system is broken.
Isn’t it? Haven’t they mostly agreed on this arrangement because for decades many mostly whites benefited from it too?
Capitalism is the problem
I partially agree, but there is no real alternative to capitalism, and definitely not anything proven, the problem is not capitalism but how it is managed. In a social democracy it can work pretty well.
I’d say that what we see today is the logical conclusion of capitalism. In a way it’s a broken system, it just takes time to collapse. But growing wealth inequality and consolidation of power are inherent problems in capitalism, and we were always going to see times like this. I mean, for further example, look at climate change and how it’s damn near impossible to actually solve the problem
It’s more that there is little political will for an alternative system, but don’t get me wrong, if humanity wants to survive in the long run, there is no easy way out. I seriously do think that, either humanity makes a global economy that serves people, and not capital, or we will self-destruct due to systemic incentives of the profit incentive
I’d say that what we see today is the logical conclusion of capitalism
Capitalism is not a political system, what is happening now is what happens when governments fail to adhere to things that were figured out more than a hundred years ago, that Capitalism needs to be reigned in, exactly to avoid it from developing into monopolies and an oligarchy. USA has allowed that to happen, because of the (bitter) “sweet” profits, and with an already dysfunctional democracy, USA is very vulnerable to abuse of the power of extremely strong companies and even individuals now.
if humanity wants to survive in the long run, there is no easy way out.
I think there absolutely is, that is called social democracy, which has a pretty strong track record for protecting both citizens and the environment from powerful capitalists.
But it requires a well functioning democracy, and it probably can’t exist in a vacuum either. But in EU things have been trending in that direction, and EU is an excellent environment for it. USA however has a long way to go. The mentality simply isn’t there currently.
Capitalism is an economic system, political system, and social system, all at once.
You cannot have capitalism, without the force of the state to back it. If the state doesn’t exist, then people would be free to associate in other ways that they are forbidden from doing. Capitalism starts breaking people in school, when we start indoctrinating them with the religion of capitalist thinking.
No, I live in the EU, the same capitalistic problems exist here, they’re just slowed down a bit due to social democracy. But don’t get me wrong, the fundamental issues are here just as much as anywhere else on the globe
Capitalism is not directly an ideology by itself, no, but it is a massive fundamental part of a given ideology. There’s a reason most ideologies revolve around the economic system, because it’s so pervasive in everything we do. From the things we do every day, to the way we interact with others, to the way we get access to resources and services we need and want, to where we live, to how we think
What you need to keep in mind, is that under capitalism there will always be a profit incentive to undermine the system for even further profit. This is what collapses civilizations, this is what makes society fall apart in the long run
Making a capitalistic economy work for the benefit of everyone, for the people, is like trying to swim upstream all the time, forever. It would be much much more internally consistent to just have a river you swim downstream with. In other words, an economy based on cooperation, not competition. A civilization based on competition is almost an oxymoron, civilization itself is fundamentally a cooperative environment. Why do we tack competition on top of that?
the fundamental issues are here just as much as anywhere else on the globe
That is simply not true, yes there are problems with right wing factions. But it is in no way comparable to the dysfunctional democracy of USA, or the authoritarian regimes like Russia and Belarus.
What you are doing is making a false equivalence. It’s like saying democracy isn’t really different from a totalitarian state, because both have rules you can go to prison for.
If you had read the rest of my first line, the American electoral system has always been broken. This isn’t a new state of affairs. The working class of America has been in a perpetual state of manipulation into further and further right-wing politics since at least the presidency of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.
He won this election with fewer votes than he lost in 2020. Ultimately, the popular vote is largely irrelevant as the number of votes overall is not what determines who won the election. He won in 2016 without the popular vote. Voter manipulation and strategic disenfranchisment won them that election and this one.
Correct, so the American public had a choice between conservatism and fascism. A state of affairs that outraged many people. The democrats and the Republicans share an interest in their corporate benefactors. They will unite to seek better outcomes for the ruling class at the expense of the working class. The democrats will and have consistently refused to adopt popular politics like those of Bernie Sanders and AOC. Those politics are in contrast to the desires of their benefactors.
The working class has been manipulated through a union of the education system and mass media to indoctrinate them into fascism and further anti worker politics. Even in traditionally democratic held states, there is a persistent refusal to educate children on anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist politics. There is a refusal to educate children on the failures of American democracy and an insistence on nationalist indoctrination. In red states, this is even worse. These problems have existed since at least the presidency of Richard Nixon and to differing extents even before then. American fascism is the system. It didn’t start yesterday, and has been manipulating the American working class for a very long time.
Even more than that the entirety of the media and education systems unite to indoctrinate the working class into anti working class politics. It indoctrinates the people into believing civil unrest is wrong, that protest and demonstration is wrong, that all political violence is wrong. This is deliberate. It is a deliberate effort to protect the interests of the ruling capitalist class.
Socialism is an alternative to capitalism. You have been indoctrinated by the capitalist ruling class into believing that socialism has never functioned. It has and continues to do so today. Socialism and authoritarianism are not equivalent concepts. The failure of authoritarian socialist states were failures of authoritarianism, not of Socialism. Capitalists have taken advantage of those failures to manipulate billions of people, like yourself, into seeing Socialism as the problem. It isn’t. Capitalism is and has been a global failure. A system that serves the self interests of billionaires is a failure. A system where workers do not own the fruits of their own labor is a failure. A system that tolerates landlords and private corporations is a failure.
f you had read the rest of my first line, the American electoral system has always been broken.
How does anything I write indicate otherwise? It’s not Trump that broke democracy (yet), he is merely exploiting the fact that it’s broken.
so the American public had a choice between conservatism and fascism.
Conservatism that at least makes room for social democrats like Bernie AOC and Ilhan Omar, and over that they chose fascism.
I don’t think there’s much point in arguing further, seems to me you are making a lot of false equivalences, and I have no patience for arguing against that.
You called it a flawed democracy. I said that it’s not flawed it is broken. It’s not democratic. The people do not get what they want.
The democratic party “leaves room” for leftists like Bernie Sanders and AOC, in that they can hang around and talk sometimes. Only as long as they have no actual power and can’t affect change in any way.
I wasn’t aware we were arguing. You didn’t respond to 95% of what I said. And that’s fine, but you can just say that you can’t or don’t want to consider anything I’ve said. You don’t have to say that I’m “making a lot of false equivalences”? I’m not really sure what you’re referring to by that.
I partially agree, but there is no real alternative to capitalism, and definitely not anything proven, the problem is not capitalism but how it is managed. In a social democracy it can work pretty well.
Chiapas is doing just fine, without capitalism. For 35+ years now. Even in the face of Mexican and US opposition to them.
We have been a flaws democracy the entire time of our existence.
Trump barely won the popular vote by 2 million and less than 50% of all votes. At best, 1/3 of Americans voted him in and unfortunately 1/3rd (beyond those who were disenfranchised) didn’t bother even showing up. Leaving 1/3rd who did or could do anything about it.
We’re pushing back. Unfortunately we have the law to work through and they’re just breaking the laws. Time will tell if the guardrails have completely fallen off. It’s not looking great but we have seen progress fighting back.
The US electoral system is broken and has always been broken. Republicans have spent the past 2 decades gerrymandering and introducing as much legislation as possible to manipulate the outcome of elections in as many districts as possible. They’ve introduced legislation: to prevent people with debt from voting, to prevent people with criminal records from voting, to prevent people who cannot physically make it to polling stations from voting. The Republicans and the ruling class own all the largest media organizations in the United States, and they have weaponized social media and traditional media to indoctrinate and manipulate as many people as possible.
Trump won this election with fewer votes than he lost in 2020. He won mostly because Republicans and Democrats are material allies in neoliberal and imperialist endeavors. Democrats refused to campaign on progressive politics, instead choosing to run on a more conservative campaign than they ever have before.
The working class is not responsible for their own manipulation at the hands of the ruling class. It is not their fault that the system is broken. It is not the fault of American families who literally can not afford to resist, as without the income from their jobs, they will lose their homes and be unable to feed themselves and their children.
Capitalism is the problem. Conservatism, and by extension neoliberalism and fascism, is the problem. Donald Trump is an accelerationist fascist. He will not wait and seeks to plunge the nation headlong into fascism as soon as possible. But do not mistake that as being in opposition to the social and political system of America. Donald Trump is entirely a representative of the failure of American democracy, not a representative of the American people. He manipulated people into voting for him, as evidenced by widespread outrage at his actions even among those who ostensibly voted for him.
Not to mention that the this “English is now the official language” decree is, I think, a way to set the foundation for a way to exclude even more people from voting. I predict they’ll come out with some kind of English proficiency test to be allowed to vote.
Wait wtf
Is this real?
The only thing I can assume that is referencing is when felons can’t vote in some states unless their court obligations are done. Some states passed laws where you can’t have your voting rights reinstated unless that court debt is paid off. That includes payment. Some people did their time but haven’t paid off their court fines.
This exactly, yes.
Which is why it’s considered a flawed democracy, which I stated.
Except Trump actually won the popular vote this time. Making this argument void regarding the presidential election 2024.
That far I agree, they have arranged it so they share power, except this time, Republicans may choose not to share it anymore.
Isn’t it? Haven’t they mostly agreed on this arrangement because for decades many mostly whites benefited from it too?
I partially agree, but there is no real alternative to capitalism, and definitely not anything proven, the problem is not capitalism but how it is managed. In a social democracy it can work pretty well.
Regarding the capitalism part
I’d say that what we see today is the logical conclusion of capitalism. In a way it’s a broken system, it just takes time to collapse. But growing wealth inequality and consolidation of power are inherent problems in capitalism, and we were always going to see times like this. I mean, for further example, look at climate change and how it’s damn near impossible to actually solve the problem
It’s more that there is little political will for an alternative system, but don’t get me wrong, if humanity wants to survive in the long run, there is no easy way out. I seriously do think that, either humanity makes a global economy that serves people, and not capital, or we will self-destruct due to systemic incentives of the profit incentive
Capitalism is not a political system, what is happening now is what happens when governments fail to adhere to things that were figured out more than a hundred years ago, that Capitalism needs to be reigned in, exactly to avoid it from developing into monopolies and an oligarchy. USA has allowed that to happen, because of the (bitter) “sweet” profits, and with an already dysfunctional democracy, USA is very vulnerable to abuse of the power of extremely strong companies and even individuals now.
I think there absolutely is, that is called social democracy, which has a pretty strong track record for protecting both citizens and the environment from powerful capitalists.
But it requires a well functioning democracy, and it probably can’t exist in a vacuum either. But in EU things have been trending in that direction, and EU is an excellent environment for it. USA however has a long way to go. The mentality simply isn’t there currently.
Capitalism is an economic system, political system, and social system, all at once.
You cannot have capitalism, without the force of the state to back it. If the state doesn’t exist, then people would be free to associate in other ways that they are forbidden from doing. Capitalism starts breaking people in school, when we start indoctrinating them with the religion of capitalist thinking.
No, I live in the EU, the same capitalistic problems exist here, they’re just slowed down a bit due to social democracy. But don’t get me wrong, the fundamental issues are here just as much as anywhere else on the globe
Capitalism is not directly an ideology by itself, no, but it is a massive fundamental part of a given ideology. There’s a reason most ideologies revolve around the economic system, because it’s so pervasive in everything we do. From the things we do every day, to the way we interact with others, to the way we get access to resources and services we need and want, to where we live, to how we think
What you need to keep in mind, is that under capitalism there will always be a profit incentive to undermine the system for even further profit. This is what collapses civilizations, this is what makes society fall apart in the long run
Making a capitalistic economy work for the benefit of everyone, for the people, is like trying to swim upstream all the time, forever. It would be much much more internally consistent to just have a river you swim downstream with. In other words, an economy based on cooperation, not competition. A civilization based on competition is almost an oxymoron, civilization itself is fundamentally a cooperative environment. Why do we tack competition on top of that?
That is simply not true, yes there are problems with right wing factions. But it is in no way comparable to the dysfunctional democracy of USA, or the authoritarian regimes like Russia and Belarus.
What you are doing is making a false equivalence. It’s like saying democracy isn’t really different from a totalitarian state, because both have rules you can go to prison for.
Obviously the 2 are not the same.
If you had read the rest of my first line, the American electoral system has always been broken. This isn’t a new state of affairs. The working class of America has been in a perpetual state of manipulation into further and further right-wing politics since at least the presidency of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.
He won this election with fewer votes than he lost in 2020. Ultimately, the popular vote is largely irrelevant as the number of votes overall is not what determines who won the election. He won in 2016 without the popular vote. Voter manipulation and strategic disenfranchisment won them that election and this one.
Correct, so the American public had a choice between conservatism and fascism. A state of affairs that outraged many people. The democrats and the Republicans share an interest in their corporate benefactors. They will unite to seek better outcomes for the ruling class at the expense of the working class. The democrats will and have consistently refused to adopt popular politics like those of Bernie Sanders and AOC. Those politics are in contrast to the desires of their benefactors.
The working class has been manipulated through a union of the education system and mass media to indoctrinate them into fascism and further anti worker politics. Even in traditionally democratic held states, there is a persistent refusal to educate children on anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist politics. There is a refusal to educate children on the failures of American democracy and an insistence on nationalist indoctrination. In red states, this is even worse. These problems have existed since at least the presidency of Richard Nixon and to differing extents even before then. American fascism is the system. It didn’t start yesterday, and has been manipulating the American working class for a very long time.
Even more than that the entirety of the media and education systems unite to indoctrinate the working class into anti working class politics. It indoctrinates the people into believing civil unrest is wrong, that protest and demonstration is wrong, that all political violence is wrong. This is deliberate. It is a deliberate effort to protect the interests of the ruling capitalist class.
Socialism is an alternative to capitalism. You have been indoctrinated by the capitalist ruling class into believing that socialism has never functioned. It has and continues to do so today. Socialism and authoritarianism are not equivalent concepts. The failure of authoritarian socialist states were failures of authoritarianism, not of Socialism. Capitalists have taken advantage of those failures to manipulate billions of people, like yourself, into seeing Socialism as the problem. It isn’t. Capitalism is and has been a global failure. A system that serves the self interests of billionaires is a failure. A system where workers do not own the fruits of their own labor is a failure. A system that tolerates landlords and private corporations is a failure.
How does anything I write indicate otherwise? It’s not Trump that broke democracy (yet), he is merely exploiting the fact that it’s broken.
Conservatism that at least makes room for social democrats like Bernie AOC and Ilhan Omar, and over that they chose fascism.
I don’t think there’s much point in arguing further, seems to me you are making a lot of false equivalences, and I have no patience for arguing against that.
You called it a flawed democracy. I said that it’s not flawed it is broken. It’s not democratic. The people do not get what they want.
The democratic party “leaves room” for leftists like Bernie Sanders and AOC, in that they can hang around and talk sometimes. Only as long as they have no actual power and can’t affect change in any way.
I wasn’t aware we were arguing. You didn’t respond to 95% of what I said. And that’s fine, but you can just say that you can’t or don’t want to consider anything I’ve said. You don’t have to say that I’m “making a lot of false equivalences”? I’m not really sure what you’re referring to by that.
Chiapas is doing just fine, without capitalism. For 35+ years now. Even in the face of Mexican and US opposition to them.
We have been a flaws democracy the entire time of our existence.
Trump barely won the popular vote by 2 million and less than 50% of all votes. At best, 1/3 of Americans voted him in and unfortunately 1/3rd (beyond those who were disenfranchised) didn’t bother even showing up. Leaving 1/3rd who did or could do anything about it.
We’re pushing back. Unfortunately we have the law to work through and they’re just breaking the laws. Time will tell if the guardrails have completely fallen off. It’s not looking great but we have seen progress fighting back.
They’ve already fallen off. In fact, they fell off right about 2008 or so.