They told me that if I went to college and got a job, I’d be able to afford groceries.
Speaking of college/jobs, they told me that going to them would help me make more friends.
i met a bunch of folks going to school that I’d never have met if I didnt go (different social circles). still chat with a lot of them 25+ years later.
It’s not that there aren’t unique people to meet there, I know there are, but if the problem is not introversion but rather interactive mental skill, throwing new people at the problem won’t fix it. Every time someone says they haven’t been able to make friends, people of the previous generation almost seem fixated on suggesting it’s all that person’s fault.
They DO help a little, but you still have to do your part and not be an insufferable asshole.
May or may not be your situation. I don’t know.
But I do know plenty of people that need to learn that.
I’m unsure about the asshole part, but the biggest issue with me and friends is I’m not good at interacting. My mind draws an indecisive blank at open questions, even ones as simple as “how are you”. People don’t like feeling like they’re talking to a wall, so no friendships form. I am not neurotypical, this is hardwired into me and cannot be trained (unless you don’t mind me blurting out completely irrelevant topic matter as a form of conversation, which makes a conversation like a bundle of bricks without an adhesive makes a fort). The only reason I fare good when communicating long distance is because it’s not a live conversation and you can meditate on how you want to respond as you do. What I need is someone I can be silent with, and that’s just not something that exists, or so people would make me think.
The problem arises when people say “[random thing] will help you make friends” as if it’s about finding people. I’m surrounded by people everyday, and I’m not an introvert. That was never an issue. But it almost comes off as they’re using it as a gimmick, as it’s something people say of everything, whether college, jobs, the military, volunteer work, literally anything that one could argue they want to lure people into doing.
My response was mostly a joke, but now that you mention it, I relate with you more than you might expect.
Years in retail and sales helped me develop my “work face” which includes a list of go-to responses for the random bullshit people say every day.
I feel you there bud, I’m lucky I enjoy animal fact videos as a side screen thing so I can usually use that as a conversation piece if needed. Customer service jobs really helped me be able to put on a face.
I might understand developing this when it comes to a stressful job, but how could that be applied to general conversation, which has a broader track range?
Well, going to a place with more people makes you meet more people, makes it easier to make friends…
It would if the problem was access to people rather than how to handle people.
As someone that had the same problem (not properly socialized when young), the only way you learn is by lots of trying, failure, and trying some more.
Thankfully my parents gave me an ultimatum in my early 20s that I either get a job or find a friend to live with. They also stopped giving me any money, unless it was gas money to go to an interview. There were a lot of failings on their part but ultimately they learned and I’m glad they did because I’m living a life now that I never thought I would have.
Falling down and standing up again, that’s life. You have relationships with family friends, partners, and sometimes you fuck up, or get fucked up on, but you stand up again and learn
Exactly. The only way to ensure you lose is to not play.
It’s a very hard mental barrier to overcome, but it can be done.
The only way not to lose in life is not to live? Did I misunderstand you?
If trying, failing, and trying some more doesn’t work, even after 24 years, what then?
Edit: This turned out much longer than I intended. Written on mobile and not proof-read. I wrote it because I was once in your shoes and feel like I have some wisdom that may be helpful if you’re willing to try a growth mindset for a while.
Keep trying. Watch videos of famous speakers. Watch videos on microexpressions and learn to recognize them. If you’re high-energy, lower your energy. People are intrigued by the silent types that say little aside from when important things need to be said. Learn to deepen your voice (it’s a learned physical stretching of the diaphram or esophagus that will go away if you stop doing it, and you’ll sound weird for the first few months, but whatever, practice online.) Speak with confidence (faked is fine), and monotone is better than sing-song. Use the neurotypical’s boredom and need to socialize to your advantage. You can be vague about your past, your job, etc. If you’re a boring person, a little mystery goes a long way. No one should ever know your innermost thought processes and intimate details, so you can use it as a way to intrigue and make them want to learn more. Learn how to small talk, which as absolutely boring and de-stimulating as it is for us, is an absolute necessity. Do not talk about things if you can’t relate it to the term ‘normie’, unless they bring it up first. This still includes anime and gaming, and especially politics and religion. Don’t be gross or take jokes too far. It will take a lot of trial and error to develop a filter of what’s acceptable to most. Once you’ve developed an acceptability filter (the first major step) you won’t be subconsciously considered creepy. Don’t play devils advocate, especially during an emotional time for the other party. Don’t ‘mansplain’. Find high-end spectrum buddies to befriend in real life. Hygiene and grooming yourself and wearing matched //and properly fitting!// clothes goes a very long way.
I saw in another comment you said you draw blanks on questions of small-talk like ‘what have you been up to’ - here is where most people would talk minimally about the ‘safe’ subjects - work or family. And it must be positive, regardless of the situation. After all, they’re not asking this question because they want to find out his you’ve been (unless it’s a good friend) they’re doing it out of social normalcy. So if you don’t have a job, and you’re not going to school, and you have a rocky relationship with your family, and the most you can say if being honest is ‘well I wrote a neat python script last week’ – just lie until you actually have a real answer to give. “Things are great, I heard back from [local company] about an IT Helpdesk position. Have an interview on Friday.” That will tell them multiple things. You have (some level) of ambition. You’re in IT. You’re in the market for a job (they may know someone in need). It’s a way to branch off into many different subjects. And, if you don’t have much to say, learn to ask good (but not creepy) questions - people love to talk about themselves.
Social interaction is the programming language of humanity, and if you refuse to learn the basics of the language, you’ll never code a meaningful friendship or life. It’s a language with many nuances and subtleties, but as long as you are willing to put yourself out there, you will be able to make a life that you’re satisfied with. It comes at the cost of emotional pain of rejection, and maybe even a regional move after you’ve learned the basics in your ‘testnet’ hometown. But you absolutely can do it.
You may think 24 years old is too old, but that’s around when I started getting it. There are two options. You can start now and live a mostly satisfying life until you’re 70-80 (hopefully). Or the alternative you currently see for yourself if you take an honest look at your situation, which I’m assuming is a grim one, with stagnation until your parents/caretakers pass away, and then a brief stint of homelessness before you pass away.
I know which one I hope you choose. It’s hard to get out there and do it, but you absolutely can. Repetition. Repetition. Repetition.
As for the place you start, mine was a small weirdo bar/coffee shop, which led to a good job, which led to girls/friends, which led to more confidence, which led to a better job in IT. There were many ups and downs, and there still are - but now I have more coping tools than just drugs, suicidal ideation, and learned helplessness. I have (2) really great friends I can talk to and depend on. I have a loving fiancée that means the world to me.
I took the time to write this because I saw myself in your comments. There are only so many things in this life that you have full control over, and discipline and mindset are two of them. Start building habits like the gym, whether running (great for mental health) or lifting (great for confidence) or both. Daily routines, including proper sleep hygiene and going to bed at a decent hour. You’ll be amazed how much easier it is to start doing and learning when you’re eating right, getting sunlight, moving your body, sleeping right (not too much, not too little, and consistently).
Also, learn to pay attention to your body. That was a big one for me. I was always so trapped in my head that I had no idea how much tension I had (tightness in chest/stomach, butterflies, etc). Physically unwinding does wonders for being mentally calm and focused. You can’t have one without the other.
I hope this gives you some level of hope or inspiration. If you ever have questions or just want to practice small talk, feel free to message me.
ETA: You’re 24 and on the spectrum. As neurodivergents, our brains develop slower in the areas related to impulse control and social functioning. You’re right around the age you can realistically start making sweeping developments in social ability and style. So while most people start learning the nuances a lot younger, you’re at the prime age to start. I had to spend a lot of time and effort and go through a lot of heartbreak and false-start friendships before I started getting it. I have AuADHD, lived in a rural area, and was just ‘too much’ for single (divorced) multiple-job parents to handle, so I didn’t get much socialization at all before grade school. I can’t blame them for it, they were ignorant and really did the best they could do, but what’s important is that I understand my strengths and weaknesses, and own and accept that my life is my responsibility now.
Life has a lot to offer. If you really need it while you’re getting the initial hang of it, there is medication for social anxiety, but use it as a temporary band-aid while you get over the worst of it, and start learning the basics - and if its an antidepressant they offer, check withdrawal effects of that specific drug. Some come with horrendous side effects and withdrawals that can last 6 months or longer. For people with autism, I am a huge advocate of cannabis - there’s some evidence, and overwhelming anecdotal evidence, that certain cannabinoids can improve social functioning in autistic people tremendously. Not concentrates. Flower, in small doses. Smoked once or twice per day, alone at first until you’re used to how it makes you feel, and then once you’re used to the perspective shift you can go out and socialize. It’ll make you feel like you can actually feel and process conversations in real-time as opposed to being stuck and emotionless and overwhelmed. For me, I am very sensitive to cannabis, and only some strains work well for this - so if you want to go this route, hopefully you live in a place with recreational or medical marijuana, or, are good with computers.
And took out a pyramid scheme loan right?
My cat pretends he’s starving to death. Every day. Even though I just fed you, Mojo
Cats are assholes haha.
A former close friend kept me (f) around as a backup plan while she waited for her ex to “stop dating other people” so they could get back together. It fucked me up bad when I learned about it since we were REALLY close otherwise, basically a LTR in all but name. It sent me into a downward spiral that took years to recover.
I cut her out of my life after she showed up unannounced at an address I never gave her to tell me they got engaged.
That’s SUPER manipulative.
Oh, my parents take the prize.
To pick just one thing, I remember a disagreement about how to re-arrange the furniture my bedroom. I remember saying (and with regret as the words were leaving my mouth), “well, it is my room.” Instant shitshow. She announced that since she wasn’t needed she would be Running Away From Home.
Even at 5 or 6, I knew that this was the stupidest thing ever, but that she also wouldn’t back down unless I cried and chased her and begged her to stay. She got out the front door and slowly walked towards the street, stopping every few feet to look back. She had nowhere to go, obviously. If this were going to be a battle of wills, I held all the cards. I was also six. If I had been 16, I might have thought to lock the front door behind her. In any case, even at that age I knew that if I somehow won this, things could only get worse.
Yeah, I whipped up some tears and ran after her. But she never tried that one again and I like to think that it was because she got all the way to the street before she got her intended outcome.
what the fuck. i’m sorry this happened to you
That’s absolutely hideous. Sometimes they only care about how you reflect them.
One of my former supervisors told me I was not meeting expectations, but he was willing to work through it with me. We made a PDP(Personal Development Plan) on which I worked hard for a couple months, getting good feedback all the time. When the plan was done we had a final meeting to conclude it and see where I stood. He spent almost an hour telling me how happy he was with my progress and how I exceeded the goals we had set, only to then pull the carpet from under me, telling me how he was in talks with another manager and that he was kicking me off the team. It’s been over a year now and I still haven’t recovered from that.
That’s like psychopathic.
Yeah, a Buddy of mine still works under him and is now in a series of talks with HR about this supervisors assessment of his performance. Getting told how your work was “greatly exceeding” expectations but then only getting an “exceeds” in your appraisal, so you won’t get a raise and gaslighting my buddy when being asked about it. They then apologized and offered him 5% more, which he found insulting. He’s now doing the minimum and started updating on his CV
Ex went off birth control without telling me. Only found out because I insisted on going to the doctor when we had a pregnancy scare.
Omigod, why? That’s a horrific thing to do.
Get a vasectomy, freeze your sperm. Take agency over your reproductive life, because it’s rightfully out of your hands if something happens.
I’ll chip in. I had dropped out of college due to realizing the program wasn’t for me and had to move back in with my mom.
I had a bad habit of forgetting to lock the door, so to retaliate, she took all of my most expensive electronics and stashed them away, but claimed they were stolen (technically they were by her). This included my laptop with a full year of college work, which was mostly art that I cared a lot about.
I found out a year later from my dad that the whole family knew, but she demanded they keep it a secret. When I confronted her, she told me she had thrown it all in the garbage because at the time, I questioned if it was her that did it. Some totally backwards logic there.
Was going to write about an ex, but I think I’ll talk about my parents. I went away to college, first year, first semester. Winter break come around and I’m planning on coming home to spend christmas with my family for a week or two, stay in my bedroom, etc. I arrive home for the first time since the beginning of the semester, and … my bedroom is gone. My parents remodeled the house while I was away and they extended the living room by knocking out my bedroom. They never even asked me about it, told me anything, I just found out I have no place to come back to once I walked through the front door. That sort of brazen rejection as a teenager… it fucked me up.
That’s insane. Did you ever go home after that? Like that’s… rejection to me.
I never went home much after that because it wasn’t home anymore. Then I came out and things deteriorated even more. I wasn’t allowed to tell my siblings (I’m the oldest) and I wasn’t allowed to be alone with them. Nowadays I don’t talk to my dad and I text my mom Merry Christmas once a year.
Fuck parents who keep their kids in the closet so hard.
Hey just so you know, myself and the rest of the world with the most baseline levels of empathy give you 100% permission to talk and be around anyone you so choose…not that you need the permission to begin with.
Thanks, I appreciate that, but all that was 20 years ago.
First ex would threaten to kill herself everyday if I didn’t bend over backwards for her.
Also shit that my parents did but they were young and dumb trying to raise a kid and our relationship is actually very solid now
That’s probably BPD, your ex.
no??? don’t make assumptions on someone’s mental health just based off of random tidbits of information online. my ex had a lot of problems that iirc she was diagnosed with, but that wasn’t one of them. it’s incredibly harmful and damaging to make wild assumptions like that, both for the people in question and people actually affected by the illnesses you’re talking about. my ex was crazy but we were also teenagers and we both had a lot of trauma in our youths. I’ve also dated people with diagnosed BPD and it was nowhere even near the same level of craziness as my first ex. don’t just go saying someone is bipolar off random shit, that’s harmful to the person in question and the people who genuinely have BPD.
I just replied 2 minutes late saying similar, thank you for sticking up for marginalized and wrongly stigmatized individuals <3
Though an important distinction; BPD stands for Borderline Personality Disorder (a personality disorder often caused by early childhood trauma), whereas Bipolar Disorder is a very different diagnosis (a mood disorder usually caused by genetic inheritance). It’s shortened to just “bipolar” or BD
(though they’re not mutually exclusive, and plenty of unlucky individuals have both, like me)
i have mental illness and trauma i myself have worked through to get to a much healthier and saner point in my life, so i hate seeing people disparage shit like that off the cuff. also im unsure if the person knows that distinction as well given their comment, but i appreciate the knowledge!
You can’t really assume that just based on the fact that the person was manipulative. BPD doesn’t deserve the hatred and stigma that it has, because not all individuals with BPD are manipulative or toxic, and individuals without the disorder can be terrible and abusive just the same.
Please don’t further spread negative stigma about people who struggle with a very difficult disorder which does not inherently make us awful, manipulative people.
(Signed, someone with BPD who is very aware of how she treats others and has a very healthy and fulfilling relationship with another individual with BPD)
I grew up with one. I cannot agree.
Just because you know one person who has a particular disorder does not mean that every person with the disorder is the same as them. That’s harmful and reductive, if not downright dehumanizing.
Try reading the subreddit r/BPDlovedones. They all have the same experience over and over and over again with borderlines. Haven’t seen one who has had a good outcome with a relationship with a borderline. They’re all there because it’s terrifying and terrorizing.
The only people who post there are those who had bad relationships with individuals with BPD, the ones who have healthy and happy relationships will not post there, obviously. Just because some people have bad experiences with others who have untreated BPD doesn’t mean everyone with BPD is guaranteed to behave in the same ways.
If there was a subreddit called r/lefthandedlovedones full of people complaining about bad experiences with left handed people, that doesn’t mean that all left handed people are abusive.
Find me someone who has had a good relationship with a borderline. Find me a subreddit that has people with those experiences. There isn’t and that’s because it’s universally a terrible experience.
First off, good on you for being aware of the fact that you have BPD and for working on yourself. I mean that sincerely. You probably don’t realize that you are a statistical anomoly, at least based on my extensive research. Very, very few people with BPD are ever diagnosed and probably fewer still possess the emotional awareness to even acknowledge that they have a borderline personality.
Second, you shouldn’t take OP’s comments personally. Yes, BPD is a horrible mental illness. And as someone who spent six years married to someone who I am 99.99% sure has undiagnosed BPD, I understand it much better than I want to. I could make a movie about that chapter of my life and it would be like watching a horrible Trainwreck. Over the years I’ve read and heard horror story after horror story from other people with SO’s, parents, and friends who are struggling with BPD (virtually all of them unknowingly) and honestly, BPD has earned every single bit of its stigma.
You just happen to be in a better situation than most of the people who struggle with it.
It’s a toss up between
- R telling me she was on birth control, I guess thinking it’d keep me around if we had a kid, then when our kid was age 4 she said she had cancer and disappeared for several months. Turns out she never had cancer and just said that so I wouldn’t think poorly of her for abandoning her child to run off with a guy in another state. …Her child that she was barely present for anyway.
- D getting me to empty my 401k to buy a house as an investment property for “our” retirement, only for her to keep it in the divorce. I could have pushed for it to be sold and gotten at least some of my money back, but she would have put up such a fight that I’d have spent in attorney’s fees as much as I would have won from the sale, so it wasn’t worth the fight to me, and she knew that.
What’d I learn from these? Not a whole lot, it turned out: my next relationship wasn’t much better. But at least I figured out to end that one before it got TOO too deep.
I had an ex pressure me real hard to get an apartment with her so she could move out of her mom’s house. When I was apprehensive she started tanking her relationship with her mom, starting fights over extremely small issues, and then pointing at those fights as reason that she needed to move out immediately.
When I still didn’t drop everything to cohabitate, she moved to a town an hour away and started pressing me to borrow a car or hitch a ride to go visit her (my vehicle can’t do more then half an hour on the highway without overheating). The first and only time I went I had gotten a ride intending to spend the night. She was at work when I got there so I cleaned up some trash and had dinner delivered.
I don’t have a great memory of what all happened when she got home, but I ended up having a panic attack during which she was very intently pressing me to admit that something was my fault. After what felt like hours she abruptly grabbed her keys and left without saying anything about where or why she was going. I had to call my mom for a ride because no one else was answering.
Ex returned before my mom got there, apparently she was “giving me some space” and was now angry that I didn’t appreciate it. The next day I got a short-story-length text from her asserting that I needed to apologize for “freaking out over nothing”.
I reckon this wasn’t even really the worst thing, per se. But it was the last thing, so it sticks out a lot in my mind. Somewhere I have a folder filled with screenshots of the worst of the emotional abuse/manipulation. It’s easy to forget the unsavory parts of someone you loved once. You have to keep a record so you don’t get used.
Mmmm I know this all too well. It’s awful.
My birth mother’s constant gaslighting. I’m 4 years free of her shit and no longer working to the bone just to stay away from home.
I’m not going to detail everything but it boiled down to unclear directions, didn’t happen the way she wanted yet exactly as she directed, gaslit me into thinking I didn’t follow her directions.
Got old like milk as soon as I started writing down and recording what she initially said.
Feel you on the crazy mother thing.
My last ex was becoming increasingly verbal and even physically abusive. I broke up with her months ago when she laid her first hands (and a broom) on me. Since then, she tried to contact me throughout all the social media and even email while still running the smear campaign mill. I blocked her everywhere, tried to contact me through a friend (who saw through her bullshit and started spying for me instead - only for any hurtful stuff that may come my way) and even tried to unsuccessfully hack my fb, Yahoo and (even if she didn’t know it, maybe from the “Forgot Password” prompt) my Outlook accounts. Even yesterday she sent me a degrading and triggering message from an old account of her that I forgot it existed. I’m going to the psychologist tomorrow to seek more healing support
Super manipulative.
My exfather deliberately cooked food I didn’t like to prove I actually like it and just do it for attention. He’s a trained chef. It started when I was three and only stopped when I moved out and stopped eating his meals.
And that’s how you became Chef Boyardee?
I’ve had an extremely physically abusive ex sign up for things under my name, leaving me to fight to have to cancel it. Even had to get a case number with this person.
I’ve had a teacher who tried to fail me for no other reason than they didn’t like my opinion on a project despite I was the only student who finished that project while everyone bailed for no other reason than it was summer.
I’ve had ex friends who would emotionally abuse me for no reason other than they were emotionally fucked up people like: Take off in the middle of the party pretend to be upset.didn’t tell us where she went. Try to call them. They wouldn’t return the call for 4 days leaving everyone worried about them. They were completely fine. They played the ‘im just an introvert’ bullshit. I know it’s bullshit cuz I am introvert and that’s not what introvert does nor is it an excuse. This asshole went on to do more shit like invite people she knew I had issues with expecting us to fight so she could be entertained fucking around with people. Luckily the other person caught on what was going on so we just played nice. We both felt used. She pulled the ‘I’m not picking sides’ which is picking sides. She did this to both of us I’m sure. The last straw was her involvement when I had been seeing a guy which ended badly. he was kind of an asshole and I was fresh out of a long term anyways and figured it was too soon anyways. So we just never called each other again and moved on. He started seeing one of her friends. But then would show up in my neighborhood and it felt like he was following me. Would show up to parties my own friends were having and my own department parties and ask about me, wondering when I’d arrive(we worked at same company but entirely different depts). When I told her I felt uneasy about him and felt a bit stalked she dismissed me. Told me he was not into me. I never spoke again to her after that. She was a wreck herself anyways. Kept hitting on one of my other friends who was feeling a bit creeped out by her. And dated a guy who was cheating on his girlfriend with her. Then he saw yet another woman…whom she got jealous of but…anyways… glad I just moved away from that shitshow.
I had one ex friend who cried in computer class who was being bullied whom I thought I’d help out. They took the side of the bully and they both turned on me.
I could go on but there isn’t really a point to it. I learned some important stuff from this. Like boundaries. To watch and wait before jumping in to help. To observe other people for longer before trusting. To observe other people and their intent better.
But what was really important for me was to seek out the better people to surround myself with. They are out there. dwelling on this kind of bullshit serves nothing more than to overlook, distract from counting the good people in my life. Con artists are everywhere so don’t give them too much of your time and don’t let them live in your head free of rent. And don’t take up a reservation for resentment. Then all the good people get missed. Focus on the good ones. Don’t take them for granted.it’s real easy to turn into an asshole and not realize it when you start taking that for granted. So remember the good. Make it an intention.
