https://t.me/c/1899284653/24171
There are new reports that he’s in the hospital. I will undelete this post if his death is confirmed.
Z-war correspondent Poddubny is alive, Kursk regional hospital reported
His hospitalization in the Kursk Regional Hospital was confirmed to the Defense Ministry’s Zvezda TV channel. Soon this information was confirmed by Poddubny’s employer, the VGTRK television and radio company. The Z-war correspondent was wounded as a result of a UAV attack.
The video allegedly shows Poddubny being hospitalized.
I want to add: The guy dressed like active russian soldiers and he never had outward signs identifying him as press. The vehicles he drove in on the frontline were those of the russian army, so again no markings of being press. Thus Ukraine attacked some Russian soldiers, one of which happened to be an embedded war journalist. Afaik, Ukraine did not actively seek out or target a journalist.
This attack by Ukraine is not the same thing as the Israeli or Russian army targeting journalists. If a journalist clearly marked themselves or their vehicle as journalists, then they were more likely to be attacked by the Israeli/Russian army than if they hadn’t. Russia has even been using guided missiles to target hotels because foreign press was staying there. And given that Russia actively targeted journalists, that might be an explanation as to why this russian propagandist did not mark himself as a journalist, but imo it’s more likely that he just liked cosplaying as one of the boys.
Might also ne deliberate. Russian army told the guy to not dress as press, so he would get killed and Russia could cry “they killin press!”
OK I’m not going to lie I feel a little mixed about this one. News correspondents - even for outlets that barely qualify as “news” or in any way “journalistic” - are not enemy combatants.
Maybe it will come out that he was armed and participating in the conflict in some way, in which case obviously the lines become blurred and I don’t feel bad anymore. But I don’t see that or much other info here.
Sure but if you’re in the military vehicle with military personnel your presence doesn’t somehow disqualify the military vehicle from being a legitimate target.
That may or may not be the case but there are still people in this thread saying he should be killed for “spreading propaganda.”
We really shouldn’t get to decide that.
Yeah, we shouldn’t be trying to justify killing journalists.
He wasn’t wearing UN blue with PRESS patches, instead wearing Russian camo. That’s a big no no. Even non standard RA kit like black body armor is better. But you gotta wear white PRESS patches if you don’t want to be mistaken for a combatant. That being said, all embedded correspondents take the risk. No situation is ideal, but a technical with military markings is absolutely fair game.
I agree no journalist should ever be targeted, regardless of their bias. Knowing Poddubny shouldn’t be targeted is why I know a NYT journalist won’t be targeted. They are in live combat zones though, and sadly people uninvolved do die in war.
Source: work in doc/investigative journalism
Here’s an example of what his kit should look like:
American journalists didn’t wear UN blue in Iraq and Afghanistan…
Uhm, I just spent the last 15 minutes looking through Google image results for war correspondents in Iraq and Afghanistan d, but all I find is people wearing very distinguishable outfits from the servicemen in desert combat fatigues. A lot of the dark blue vests and helmets… even civilian clothes… so I’d like to tell you you are incorrect.
participating in the conflict in some way
On the photo he looks like a Russian soldier.
Based on what? Wearing body armor? That is incredibly common
Based on what? Wearing body armor? That is incredibly common
A man in a group with Russian soldiers wearing the same cameo outfit and gear as these soldiers is looking like a soldier, even if at the very moment of the drone attack he might not have carried a weapon.
This is a single photo unlikely taken from the incident. We can’t assume that.
Either way, shit happens sadly. Journalists die unintentionally. The point is we shouldn’t celebrate it. Members of the press shouldn’t die covering military conflicts.
A state employed propagandist is no journalist, though.
Typically legit reporters wear no camo and vests that identify them as journalists.
You mean like NPR photographer David Gilkey, who was killed in the field?
Sure looks like camo to me.
None of these people deserved to die.. I don’t give a shit what outlet they represented.
Don’t take your rage out on me. I didn’t say he deserved to die, I simply said what I know from my experience with reporters in Iraq.
Well fun fact: they sometimes wear camo 🤷♂️
He was wearing uniform, so combatant. Also, because of his propaganda many innocent people died. The hit on him is 100% justified.
Look at the picture and his history of working in the field. He cosplayed as Russian soldiers, traveled in military vehicles and made no effort to mark himself or others as press or journalist. There is no reasonable way anyone not familiar with him would have been able to pick him out from other soldiers he was embedded with. Probably the only thing that would mark him as press would be him talking to a camera.
It’s one fucking picture!
Either way this argument misses the point. Press deaths shouldn’t be celebrated.
When their primary responsibilities are pushing propaganda they become enemy combatants. The pen is mightier, after all.
That is a war crime. Very explicitly so.
So you think all war correspondents besides those in Russia are magically not part of the propaganda machine? Should American journalists be killed on the front lines as well if their content fail your litmus test for “propaganda”?
The rules governing how we treat the press and medics etc. exist for a reason. You cannot make exceptions or the rules don’t exist at all.
Should they be killed? No. Am I losing sleep over it? Also no.
That’s not how it works. You are saying it is morally permissible. This is one of those situations where it has to be a binary decision. It can’t be based on who they represent or the integrity of the publication.
Murder is wrong, always.
Murdering the people who are murdering you, a grey area that ought not exist.
That’s where the logic where we can be happy a foreign “journalist spreading propaganda” is killed exists, cognitive dissonance is a universal human trait.
Ooooh, binary. I love binary. It’s so black and white. Really easy to define, too.
If someone on the ground is falsy reporting the war, then they have lost their journalistic integrity. They are no longer protected. Claiming to be a journalist and falsely reporting the war is like the kid who plays tag and claims that everything they touch is “safe” so they can’t be tagged. I’m sorry, but that isn’t what war journalism is. War journalism is reporting the horrific truths of what is happening. If you are going out there and telling lies, then you aren’t a journalist, you are just that shitty kid that no one wants to play with because you make up your own rules.
Some decisions in life are yes/no questions. Surely I don’t need to explain this.
Is “losing your journalistic integrity” a crime so heinous one should be killed?
Goddamn. How someone with such low reading comprehension can be arguing about journalism is beyond me. Holy shit.
SHOULD. SHOULD. SHOULD.
I never said they should be killed. Fucking Christ. What I am saying is that they should not have the protections you think they should.
If I go out and start twerking on the front line for tiktok and claim I’m a journalist, should I be protected? Should the enemy adjust fire so as not to hit me? Cause if that’s the case, I have a great post for c/noncredibledefense. Fucking hell. A propagandist is not a journalist. They do not get the same protections. Yes, if they are shot and killed while spreading lies, they brought it on themselves. They could have stayed in their studio and done the same. I do not mourn the liars on the front lines.
It has to be binary, no nuance? So you’re against killing the press obviously, so let me ask you this: if he was providing information and physically helping the was effort by moving resources and planning, is it ok then? Does being in the press give you a pass to do anything and not be caught up in the war, or is there nuance and it isn’t binary?
That’s acting as an actual part of the military and is beyond the scope of the press. Just like if a medic picks up a gun and starts shooting it’s fair to shoot back. It’s not blanket immunity, there are rules.
A member of the press acting in their capacity as a member of the press should never be targeted and we shouldn’t celebrate their deaths.
So what about taking pictures of troop movements for the press? That could aid the military. You can act as the press and get crucial information, even go behind enemy lines and get that info. Where do you draw the line? Could someone under label of press gather tons of intel then broadcast it as “news”?
Is it not obvious to you that not all governments are equal? Ukraine was invaded for no reason except for Putin’s longing for the Soviet Union or the idea of an empire that can compete with the West.
The propagandists cheer for every bombing of Ukraine and say “we must do more”. Tatarsky, who was killed in Saint Petersburg, even had fought in the Donbas, and there’s a more recent video of him saying “let’s kill and rob”.
There are laws in many countries that can get you locked up for advocating for killing people or making serious threats. In war, arresting may not always be an option.
I’m sorry, I would like you to point out where I said anything like “Ukraine isn’t a legitimate/equal government” or “Ukraine was invaded for good reason” or any of the shit you just accused me of saying. This is irrelevant strawman bullshit.
Participating in state run war propaganda is just as deadly as shooting a rifle.
Pithy one liners are good for PR campaigns but not actual discussion.
That doesn’t make it any less true or relevant.
Yes it does because it’s vacuous and ignores reality.
There are rules governing treatment of the press in war. If you don’t want to respect those fine but I don’t respect that stance. You can tell me you don’t care or argue with me all day, I’m not changing my mind on that. Rules like that are important. How do you think we are hearing what Israel is doing to Palestinians? It’s because those protections are in place. They have to be.
But please keep advocating for a world where we wouldn’t learn about human rights violations or what is actually happening because anyone who dares to report on it will be picked off by soldiers in the field.
And you’re painting the press and black or white which isn’t how reality works.
You can easily have a reporter start directly aiding the war effort through misinformation and recon.
But please, keep living in a make believe world where everyone acts honestly and no one ever abuses their status. Sounds nice.
This is an old thread but as I’ve said to several other people - which if you’d actually read the conversations before chiming in you’d have seen - if they participate in the war effort they are no longer guaranteed protections of the press.
If a medic aims a gun at someone they are a valid target. Same thing. You are correct: I am making this black and white. Which is made possible because there are rules governing what non-combatants can and can’t do before becoming combatants.
Old? Your response was 5 days ago, sorry I don’t live on social media lol.
But sure, come at me for not digging into every response you’ve ever made and just having a direct convo directly with you lol.
You keep trying to paint “participate in the war effort” as black and white, which you admit. Simply inspiring people to join the military by painting a picture of the war front is participation in the war effort, you can’t ignore that. They have more soldiers because of the actions of the press. And since it is black and white, by your logic they lose protection by doing that. Well if thats the case then this was a clean kill. Glad we finally agree.
Probably wasnt individually targeted himself
That may or may not be the case but there are still people in this thread saying he should be killed for “spreading propaganda.”
It’s the internet. People will spread crazy shit everywhere. Don’t have to go far on lemmy to find an account who thinks north korea is an examplary regime. Take it all with some salt. Thankfully (for now) it isn’t representative of the opinions of most people.
🌻
They are now starting to sow sunflowers in ruzzia itself.
Even better than in Ukraine!
He wasn’t a good guy but he was a journalist and a non-combatant, wasn’t he? I don’t think you’re supposed to deliberately kill people like that.
He was in a military vehicle.
Yes, Poddubny was driving a Peugeot Landtrek pickup truck, diesel, with Z marking. The car was equipped with EW against FPV.
That makes sense.
“Journalist”. The shutter button can kill as many brains as a trigger if the intentions are rooted in evil. Fuck him and fuck his lies he told his own people and tried to misinform the rest.
You can say that about literally anyone and now everyone is fair game. Fix your stance before you get knocked down.
No you literally can’t lol
I think you gotta work on your English buddy.
You said literally, anyone. Words have meaning. So by your logic, a 1-year-old child, this applies to them as well; they could kill just as many people? Fix your English before you look like more of a fool. People like you like to say these extreme statements to try to prove a point instead of having an actual, well-formed thought. No, you can’t apply it to literally anyone, and no, it wouldn’t make everyone free game, enough with the super transparent hyperbole.
Never saw a 1-year old in a commercial selling stuff?
Removed by mod
Does that go for the innocent ones that stand against the war?
Bad russians support troops or invade Ukraine. They should be made out of Ukraine.
Nah russians (anti-war soy) do not participate. They and their problems should be ignored. Was killed in action - this swine deserves it.
Good russians are only dead russians
Ohh no! Anyway…
THIS is why you shouldn’t do front line reporting. Abby Martin refused because of stuff like this. Don’t give me surprised Pikachu face if you get hurt in a warzone.
He had it coming.
ITT: a disturbing but unsurprising amount of people who think war crimes are good when the good guys do them.
Uhm… if he dresses like a soldier, moves with the troops and is in no way distinguishable from the hordes of orcs that have to die, he is a valid target.
Soldiers are to wear uniforms to easily distinguish them from non combatants. So the opposing side can avoid targeting civilians on purpose. If the non combatants then start wearing military gear, they are wearing a bullseye.
The responsibility is on the defending force to keep their civilians safe. If you start placing air defence on hospitals and placing ammo stocks in schools you cannot claim targeting of civilians if the valid military targets are hit.
See, you start making a valid argument, but can’t even make it to the end of the sentence before you stop pretending. Here, let me help you:
Uhm… if he dresses like a soldier, moves with the troops and is in no way distinguishable from
the hordes of orcs that have to dieother soldiers*,he is a valid targetthe drone operator cannot be held responsible for not distinguishing him.Wearing camo is not enough to make you a target, even having a weapon doesn’t necessarily make you a target. The responsibility of keeping civilians safe is not on the defender, it’s on both sides. The take that doesn’t defend warcrimes is that his death is an unfortunate accident caused by his failure to wear appropriate markings. Instead, the thread has his face crossed out as if he was on a hitlist.
Like, I get it. You finally have an outlet for your repressed chauvinism that won’t get you called racist and you’re letting yourself blow off some steam. But for fucks sake have some decorum about it, you’re acting like Americans.
I was never pretending. I am not the one defending the death of a Russian propaganda officer. And trying to make this guy out as anything else could be construed as pretending.
The sentiment I conveyed (the one you seem to take offense with) is very much the way Ukranians look at the situation. They where invaded by an horde that loots, rapes and pillages anything left after their war machine is done with an area.
You again seem to by trying to minimize this guy’s mistakes. He made himself indistinguishable from Russian soldiers… so he is a fair target… nothing more to it. He probably wanted to seem “cool” or “legit” for his viewers. Showing them how life in the trenches is by experiencing it with the troops… Well, now he got the full experience… Back to the motherland as cargo 200.
So go clutch your pearls elsewhere.
Exactly what i said in the first place - “ITT: a disturbing but unsurprising amount of people who think war crimes are good when the good guys do them.”
