• abbotsbury@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      That’s still degrading to fellators.

      And idk if I’d say it’s a power thing, cocksuckers are the active participant in a blow job, and I’d say the submissive one is the one with their meat between a pair of teeth.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 days ago

        find me people who suck cock that actually give a fuck about other people calling people cocksuckers and we can talk.

        And idk if I’d say it’s a power thing, cocksuckers are the active participant in a blow job, and I’d say the submissive one is the one with their meat between a pair of teeth.

        nobody is arguing that sucking cock is submissive??? The argument is that being a cocksucker is a submissive thing.

        Or you trolling? Or are you actually serious?

        • MTK@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Too lazy to write two separate responses? I’ll try!

          “Don’t be a bigot” = dystopian future

          Sound logic.

          Oh shit, that’s the same message, guess you will have to read it twice, maybe that way it will get through to you.

          Tap for spoiler

          You can be better, reflect on your bigotry and grow as a person.

      • BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee
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        3 days ago

        its still at the end of the day giving pleasure to another. giving the key word: power thing. its the same atmosphere as bootlicker

        • papertowels@mander.xyz
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          3 days ago

          If you think going down on someone is only a submissive act you haven’t gone down on someone long enough, or teased them enough.

        • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Okay but like, in regular penis-in-vagina sex, the man is (theoretically) giving pleasure to the woman while also doing all the work. Is that still power play? Is pussyfucker the same as cocksucker?

          • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 days ago

            i mean yeah, pussyfucker if you used as an insult would be quite a weird insult to throw, but it would work i suppose.

            Motherfucker is also in the same vein like the other commenter suggested.

          • BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee
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            3 days ago

            pussyfucker isnt an insult ive ever heard but motherfucker is

            cocksucker reminds me of the prison mentality of making someone your bitch so thats where im getting the power play from

            • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              Exactly, pussyfucker isn’t an insult because traditionally there was nothing wrong with fucking pussy, but calling someone a cocksucker is implying they’re either gay or a woman

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                2 days ago

                that’s also a fundamentally flawed argument though. Unless you’re like actively raping someone, there’s nothing inherently wrong with fucking a woman. That’s why the implication of cocksucker and motherfucker matter, obviously someone fucks everyones mother, but it’s the implication that people who are “motherfuckers” would fuck your mother just to be a problem.

              • BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee
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                3 days ago

                why arent you explaining motherfucker then?

                and funny how your mind goes straight to homophobia or misogyny, when there are other interpretations for cocksucker

                • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
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                  3 days ago

                  oedipal

                  and funny how your mind goes straight to homophobia or misogyny, when there are other interpretations for cocksucker

                  oh you’re trolling, good day

        • MTK@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Being submissive in sex can be expressed in a blowjob, but so can being dominant. Most sexual acts can be either dominant or submissive under the right context. For example a person can forcibly (consensually) throw the other person down, pin them to the floor and start going down on them while not letting them orgasm. Is the person being overpowered and forced to be frustrate by not orgasming the one in power?

          Your understanding of mutual respect and love is unhealthy if you compare going down on someone to bootlicking.

          • BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee
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            3 days ago

            im comparing an insult to bootlicking. jesus christ you people really feel like arguing over absolutely nothing

            • MTK@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              I think you are missing the point, which is that “cocksucker” should not be used as an insult because it’s homophobic. Even if you personally identify it as a power dynamic insult, it does not change the fact that it is rooted in homophobia and that the OOP most likely used it without any thought as to its meaning and history but rather it just came to him as a viable insult (internalized homophobia)

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                2 days ago

                or maybe i’m just gay and i think cocksucker is a funny insult, but no i must be homophobic, clearly that’s the only option.

                This shits just not that complicated bro, it’s language, doesn’t matter where an insult came from if it’s use is broadly different in modern lexicon. Some fascinating psychoanalysis of random people on the internet.

                • MTK@lemmy.world
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                  2 days ago

                  If you are white, go call a black person a removed in a friendly way (like black people do to eachother sometimes) and see how well that goes. History matters, the origin of a word matters. Sure, maybe in a 100 years the meaning will change, but currently it is still widely recognized as a homophobic slur.

                  And even if you were gay, that does not make you immune to internelized homophobia. Just like there are plenty of black people who disagree with the usage of the word removed even if spoken by a black person, because it is still rooted in racism.

                  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 day ago

                    Yeah but the proportion of intensity also matters. The n word literally dates back to slavery. It makes sense that it would be a pretty offensive racial line to cross. Although i don’t think it’s fully strict, i think it’s just mostly strict, you can find examples outside of it.

                    There’s also the question of a slur being situationally relevant. For example, you could write out the n word in long form, specifically for the act of describing it, in a dictionary for instance. You would struggle to argue that it’s a necessarily “racist” usage of the word.

                    For the same reason i would argue that “cocksucker” isn’t necessarily a slur against gay people, for example, if you don’t use it for the purposes of specifically slurring a gay person. Which also brings into question whether or not it is even a slur in the first place.

                    Of course there are also words like faggot for example, which are more directly linked to gay people, and being a slur specifically in that regard, it doesn’t have much use outside of that. But even then people do still use it, primarily gay people. Some of us just think it’s a funny word. (you can call me a faggot all you want i don’t care, i just think you look silly lmao) though i would still explicitly denote the slurred usage of faggot.

                    And even if you were gay, that does not make you immune to internelized homophobia.

                    and this would be pretty fundamentally “schizo” like we’re talking freudian psychology levels of psycho analysis and diagnosing here. There are certainly select cases where that could theoretically be possible, but i don’t see that being worth more than interesting psychological banter. I mean realistically, it’s meaningless in 99% of cases. There’s going to be another more aggressive tell.

                    Just like there are plenty of black people who disagree with the usage of the word removed even if spoken by a black person, because it is still rooted in racism.

                    and you can be against the usage of it, for sure, but i think you’ll have a hard time finding black people who police what other black people say. Just as you will in this case.

              • BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee
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                3 days ago

                i never thought of it as a homophobic insult because plenty of straight bi etc also suck cocks, if ive ever heard cocksucker in a homophobic context ive always heard a certain slur right after it

                to me, cocksucker reminds me of a prison dynamic, where its more about the power of making someone suck your cock vs them being just gay for sucking cock

                but at the end of the day it dont matter we’re all just arguing about an insult homophobic or not i dont think its a good use of our time to continue to argue about its semantics

        • Redfox8@mander.xyz
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          3 days ago

          So, if you were to replace ‘cocksucker’ with ‘towelhead’, slut, Yid, or Nig*** would that still just be a power thing?

          Not that it actually makes a difference. This ‘power thing’ you refer to is controlling abuse for self interest. Introducing a predudice is just a way of trying to justify and/or hide the abuse.

            • Redfox8@mander.xyz
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              2 days ago

              No, the discussion was not about whether different words were of equal or differing offensiveness. My discussion is about what saying ‘it’s a power thing’ actually means and how it relates to abusive behaviour.

                • Redfox8@mander.xyz
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                  24 hours ago

                  Exactly! Which was my original point that this ‘power thing’ is about using/tied to abusive/instluting behaviour rather than something separate.

    • MTK@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      He could have also said “vaginalicker” but he didn’t, he used a well known homophobic slur. Also, if he wanted to say submissive he could have used well known submissive insults.