It’s not really to do with whether they’re the protagonist, it’s how they’re treated as a character (and by extension the actor). Off the top of my head the best example is Carly from Transformers 3. She’s incredibly 2-dimensional. What do we know about her, her motivations, what drives her? Well, not a lot. At best you could argue she has a good job and is responsible for getting Megatron to help OP. But when we look at the movie overall it’s not great. She’s consistently needing saved by Sam, the film goes to lengths to focus on her borderline inappropriate relationship with her male boss, and she just doesn’t do a lot for the plot that doesn’t serve some male. In fact, her introduction, arguably the most important scene for establishing her character, is a camera shot of her ass. That’s objectification because the character exists amid a web of weak characterization and conformity to gender roles that treat her more like a trophy than a proper character
Carly was not the main character of that film, Sam was. I really think you’re missing my point. You’ve defined objectification in such a way that no lead character could ever be said to be objectified. So, if you’re going to use that definition to claim that Thor isn’t objectified, you must agree that no female protagonist can claim to be objectified to be consistent with your own definition.
Can you find me an example of a man who serves a similar role to Carly? Find me an example of a male character who is not the protagonist who is there solely to be attractive.
Because if you’re honest you’ll have to agree that it is orders of magnitude more common for women to be shown that way than for men.
If you’re looking for supporting male characters who are objectified in the same way supporting female characters are, then yes, that would be hard to find. But that’s because men aren’t sexually objectified in the same way women are, because the criteria for sexual objectification for women are different than those for men. How many romantic comedies have you seen wherein the male love interest does fulfill the role of the “strong man” by being protective of the female lead, but also is cast as submissive to her in other contexts, whether by losing arguments to her, being the butt of her jokes, or changing in the stereotypical way women like to think they can change men (e.g. taming the “bad boy”). That’s how men tend to be objectified in films marketed to women, because women’s sexual appetites are different than those of men.
That’s not objectification. That’s not reducing men to a literal object for women’s desires. It’s a false equivalence. Men are shown to be people in all of the contexts you just listed. In fact you’d be hard pressed to find a romantic comedy where the man isn’t a character in their own right. Same goes for dramas. They definitely exist but they’re a vast minority.
That’s not reducing men to a literal object for women’s desires.
Yes it is, just not the same exact type of object that women are rendered as when objectified for men.
Men are shown to be people in all of the contexts you just listed.
So are a lot of female protagonists that have clearly been objectified for male sexual appetites. Lara Croft, Wonder Woman, a host of female leads in Anime. These are not mutually exclusive things.
But look, if disagree with that and think objectification only counts when it’s done in the extreme fashion you describe, I think we should just agree to disagree, because I don’t think further discussion is going to get us anywhere. I’ve seen this term used throughout my life and those instances do not fit with what you’re saying; you’d have to provide an enormously compelling argument to get me to reevaluate my entire life’s experience with this concept.
It’s not really to do with whether they’re the protagonist, it’s how they’re treated as a character (and by extension the actor). Off the top of my head the best example is Carly from Transformers 3. She’s incredibly 2-dimensional. What do we know about her, her motivations, what drives her? Well, not a lot. At best you could argue she has a good job and is responsible for getting Megatron to help OP. But when we look at the movie overall it’s not great. She’s consistently needing saved by Sam, the film goes to lengths to focus on her borderline inappropriate relationship with her male boss, and she just doesn’t do a lot for the plot that doesn’t serve some male. In fact, her introduction, arguably the most important scene for establishing her character, is a camera shot of her ass. That’s objectification because the character exists amid a web of weak characterization and conformity to gender roles that treat her more like a trophy than a proper character
Carly was not the main character of that film, Sam was. I really think you’re missing my point. You’ve defined objectification in such a way that no lead character could ever be said to be objectified. So, if you’re going to use that definition to claim that Thor isn’t objectified, you must agree that no female protagonist can claim to be objectified to be consistent with your own definition.
Can you find me an example of a man who serves a similar role to Carly? Find me an example of a male character who is not the protagonist who is there solely to be attractive.
Because if you’re honest you’ll have to agree that it is orders of magnitude more common for women to be shown that way than for men.
If you’re looking for supporting male characters who are objectified in the same way supporting female characters are, then yes, that would be hard to find. But that’s because men aren’t sexually objectified in the same way women are, because the criteria for sexual objectification for women are different than those for men. How many romantic comedies have you seen wherein the male love interest does fulfill the role of the “strong man” by being protective of the female lead, but also is cast as submissive to her in other contexts, whether by losing arguments to her, being the butt of her jokes, or changing in the stereotypical way women like to think they can change men (e.g. taming the “bad boy”). That’s how men tend to be objectified in films marketed to women, because women’s sexual appetites are different than those of men.
That’s not objectification. That’s not reducing men to a literal object for women’s desires. It’s a false equivalence. Men are shown to be people in all of the contexts you just listed. In fact you’d be hard pressed to find a romantic comedy where the man isn’t a character in their own right. Same goes for dramas. They definitely exist but they’re a vast minority.
Yes it is, just not the same exact type of object that women are rendered as when objectified for men.
So are a lot of female protagonists that have clearly been objectified for male sexual appetites. Lara Croft, Wonder Woman, a host of female leads in Anime. These are not mutually exclusive things.
But look, if disagree with that and think objectification only counts when it’s done in the extreme fashion you describe, I think we should just agree to disagree, because I don’t think further discussion is going to get us anywhere. I’ve seen this term used throughout my life and those instances do not fit with what you’re saying; you’d have to provide an enormously compelling argument to get me to reevaluate my entire life’s experience with this concept.